Trans topic
I think it is INDICTABLE that the mods did not even contact me to inform me that they were closing my thread. This is a free and wrong form of censorship. And I no longer have the ability to find all the links I was reading concerning the topic. I ask whoever deleted the thread to reactivate it if possible, and to write to me to apologize for their attitude as my thread was not going against any guidelines.
In the meantime I am reposting ALL of my thoughts and comments below so that we can have a new starting point.
Hi everyone, im new here. I grew up in a small Italian village, i am 24 and i disagree with 99,99% of what my parents and teachers told me. But there is one thing i find true: being trans is a mental illness. Im not saying "i hate trans people", im just saying that i feel like we should not allow people to change appearance (cause trans people do not change sex, they just have massive appearance changes but they do not become identical to a real woman or a real man) because of a mental illness.
NOW i just want to clarify that 1) i do not hate trans people i just do not understand them and 2) i would like some of you to tell me your opinions regarding this particular subject .
If you try to teach evolutionary theory to a Christian person who believes in divine creation (or vice versa), of course you will hit a wall at the beginning of the discussion but that is normal because the 2 people have different beliefs. Now I don't want to talk about religion or science also because I am agnostic, the comparison I wanted to make is the following: I think it is normal that I am in a starting point that you consider transphobic because I have always received transphobic notions in my life, and you are hitting my wall. But I'm looking for a dialogue that's all. Thank you.
I am not saying that I am someone who possesses the power to decide how people should be or look. My idea is this: if a person is not comfortable with himself in his own body perhaps (instead of changing his body) he should try to accept himself. Imagining for a moment that the possibility of surgically changing sex does not exist, there must be some other way to make people who are not comfortable in their sex manage to be okay no?
I'm trying to broaden my views and I'm looking for a dialogue, and I don't think there's anything wrong with what I'm doing. Thank you.
I first wanted to thank you for 1) not insulting me and 2) accepting my request for dialogue. And I also wanted to thank you for providing me with this very large amount of material that I will read tonight and in the coming days. Thank you.
I never thought of surgical sex change as a treatment for trans disease. It is a very interesting cue I hope to find something about it on the internet.
Someone else: If you are afraid of being construed as someone who hates trans people, you should reflect on why that is the case. It is well documented that being transgender is not a mental illness or indication of illness. The only harm brought about by a person being transgender is the stigma they face when people propagate beliefs like this.
Me again: Point one: I fear being labeled as transphobic because every time I try to talk and understand many people who do not understand my true intentions insult me without establishing rapport, and that says a lot about THEIR way of relating to people. But I have to admit that in this thread I have found many people willing to dialogue and let me see their point of view or a scientific point of view and I extremely appreciate that.
Guys I would like to kindly ask you to stop discussing your ideas among yourselves using insults. This is a place of dialogue and although it may not seem like it, respect. I still stand by my ideas but that does not mean that I should insult a trans person. And vice versa, I would like trans people not to insult those like me who are trying to understand or at least dialogue. Please let's all keep a calm and kind tone and this thread in my opinion can become an important place to exchange ideas. Thank you all.
To clarify some ideas you may have had about me: I am not right-wing. And in Italy not all rural villages are right-wing (such as mine, for example). I am on the left but not like the American left, which is confused and exaggeratedly multifaceted, nor like the Italian left, which is practically dry and dead. Consider me an almost communist who does not yet call himself one because I have not yet studied the doctrine well enough thank you.
Correct. There are a couple of other topics here that I wanted to touch on with a lot of interest. 1) I would very much like to find some truthful and politically "Clean" data showing the suicide rate in the trans community to possibly compare the suicide rate in people who have had the surgery and people who have not. Undoubtedly, having already heard about the high suicide rate in trans people, this is one of those traits that still makes me consider being trans as an illness. 2)Hormone therapy. I believe it is INCREDIBLE that the law allows CHILDREN to commit such permanent or semi-permanent changes to their bodies. I find it cruel beyond measure. And I speak from personal experience because one of my old friends went through a period of transition and then regretted it and was seriously traumatized by it because certain physical changes have an extremely hard time going away.
In the meantime I am reposting ALL of my thoughts and comments below so that we can have a new starting point.
Hi everyone, im new here. I grew up in a small Italian village, i am 24 and i disagree with 99,99% of what my parents and teachers told me. But there is one thing i find true: being trans is a mental illness. Im not saying "i hate trans people", im just saying that i feel like we should not allow people to change appearance (cause trans people do not change sex, they just have massive appearance changes but they do not become identical to a real woman or a real man) because of a mental illness.
NOW i just want to clarify that 1) i do not hate trans people i just do not understand them and 2) i would like some of you to tell me your opinions regarding this particular subject .
If you try to teach evolutionary theory to a Christian person who believes in divine creation (or vice versa), of course you will hit a wall at the beginning of the discussion but that is normal because the 2 people have different beliefs. Now I don't want to talk about religion or science also because I am agnostic, the comparison I wanted to make is the following: I think it is normal that I am in a starting point that you consider transphobic because I have always received transphobic notions in my life, and you are hitting my wall. But I'm looking for a dialogue that's all. Thank you.
I am not saying that I am someone who possesses the power to decide how people should be or look. My idea is this: if a person is not comfortable with himself in his own body perhaps (instead of changing his body) he should try to accept himself. Imagining for a moment that the possibility of surgically changing sex does not exist, there must be some other way to make people who are not comfortable in their sex manage to be okay no?
I'm trying to broaden my views and I'm looking for a dialogue, and I don't think there's anything wrong with what I'm doing. Thank you.
I first wanted to thank you for 1) not insulting me and 2) accepting my request for dialogue. And I also wanted to thank you for providing me with this very large amount of material that I will read tonight and in the coming days. Thank you.
I never thought of surgical sex change as a treatment for trans disease. It is a very interesting cue I hope to find something about it on the internet.
Someone else: If you are afraid of being construed as someone who hates trans people, you should reflect on why that is the case. It is well documented that being transgender is not a mental illness or indication of illness. The only harm brought about by a person being transgender is the stigma they face when people propagate beliefs like this.
Me again: Point one: I fear being labeled as transphobic because every time I try to talk and understand many people who do not understand my true intentions insult me without establishing rapport, and that says a lot about THEIR way of relating to people. But I have to admit that in this thread I have found many people willing to dialogue and let me see their point of view or a scientific point of view and I extremely appreciate that.
Guys I would like to kindly ask you to stop discussing your ideas among yourselves using insults. This is a place of dialogue and although it may not seem like it, respect. I still stand by my ideas but that does not mean that I should insult a trans person. And vice versa, I would like trans people not to insult those like me who are trying to understand or at least dialogue. Please let's all keep a calm and kind tone and this thread in my opinion can become an important place to exchange ideas. Thank you all.
To clarify some ideas you may have had about me: I am not right-wing. And in Italy not all rural villages are right-wing (such as mine, for example). I am on the left but not like the American left, which is confused and exaggeratedly multifaceted, nor like the Italian left, which is practically dry and dead. Consider me an almost communist who does not yet call himself one because I have not yet studied the doctrine well enough thank you.
Correct. There are a couple of other topics here that I wanted to touch on with a lot of interest. 1) I would very much like to find some truthful and politically "Clean" data showing the suicide rate in the trans community to possibly compare the suicide rate in people who have had the surgery and people who have not. Undoubtedly, having already heard about the high suicide rate in trans people, this is one of those traits that still makes me consider being trans as an illness. 2)Hormone therapy. I believe it is INCREDIBLE that the law allows CHILDREN to commit such permanent or semi-permanent changes to their bodies. I find it cruel beyond measure. And I speak from personal experience because one of my old friends went through a period of transition and then regretted it and was seriously traumatized by it because certain physical changes have an extremely hard time going away.
